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Why liberal activism works and conservative activism doesn't exist


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#221 dain

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:06 AM

View PostVelociFaptor, on 02 May 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

The Right always has reasons why we can't do anything.  Not the right time, bad optics, the leaders are imperfect, can't get the right permits and so on and so on.

The Left doesn't worry about any of this stuff.  If they get the idea to go smash storefronts, they just do it.  If they don't want Charles Murray or Ben Shapiro speaking at their school, they physically prevent it from happening.  If they see a statue of Stonewall Jackson or something that they don't like, they just go smash it on their own.  That nogette who took down the confederate flag from the South Carolina state house didn't ask for a permit, she just climbed the pole and grabbed it.

On the contrary, the left worries about all of that stuff and more. Do you know how much thankless behind-the-scenes hard work goes into pulling off one of those "spontaneous protests"?

https://status451.co...ighties-can-do/

Quote

The first time I raised the idea of Righties learning from Lefties, a lot of people greeted it with derision. Plenty still do. That’s a terrible attitude, one that Righties need to overcome if we want to win.

Some Righties argue that we don’t need to learn from Lefties, because Righties are just better. You’ve heard it, I’m sure: “Lefties are weak, Lefties are cowardly, Lefties are afraid of work.” But absolutely none of that is true. Lefties are tough. Lefties are brave. Lefties are smart. Lefties are the hardest workers you’ll ever see.

Part of the issue here is cultural. Some of the ways Lefties get and use power are very culturally offensive to Righties. It’s hard to intellectually appreciate a difference in values when every fiber of your being is telling you that the other person is just being an asshole. And it’s hard to see the mechanics at work, because the press talks about Lefty movements and moments as if they magically just happen.

[...]

Righties don’t want to believe that. Thus, the same old horseshit: “oh it’s all George Soros.” “Oh we don’t get turnout for protests because we all have jobs.” “Oh we’d win a Second Civil War in five minutes anyway because the Lefties are wusses and we’ve got all the guns.”

It can’t possibly be that there’s work we need to do, work that we’ve been neglecting because we don’t understand how it works and we’re lazy. That’s unthinkable.

Well, think it. Because it’s true.

In fact, everyone ITT advocating to DO SOMETHING NOW needs to read that link.

Edited by dain, 03 May 2018 - 03:11 AM.


#222 Unprofessional Behaviorist

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 06:57 AM

View Postdain, on 03 May 2018 - 03:06 AM, said:

View PostVelociFaptor, on 02 May 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

The Right always has reasons why we can't do anything.  Not the right time, bad optics, the leaders are imperfect, can't get the right permits and so on and so on.

The Left doesn't worry about any of this stuff.  If they get the idea to go smash storefronts, they just do it.  If they don't want Charles Murray or Ben Shapiro speaking at their school, they physically prevent it from happening.  If they see a statue of Stonewall Jackson or something that they don't like, they just go smash it on their own.  That nogette who took down the confederate flag from the South Carolina state house didn't ask for a permit, she just climbed the pole and grabbed it.

On the contrary, the left worries about all of that stuff and more. Do you know how much thankless behind-the-scenes hard work goes into pulling off one of those "spontaneous protests"?

https://status451.co...ighties-can-do/

Quote

The first time I raised the idea of Righties learning from Lefties, a lot of people greeted it with derision. Plenty still do. That’s a terrible attitude, one that Righties need to overcome if we want to win.

Some Righties argue that we don’t need to learn from Lefties, because Righties are just better. You’ve heard it, I’m sure: “Lefties are weak, Lefties are cowardly, Lefties are afraid of work.” But absolutely none of that is true. Lefties are tough. Lefties are brave. Lefties are smart. Lefties are the hardest workers you’ll ever see.

Part of the issue here is cultural. Some of the ways Lefties get and use power are very culturally offensive to Righties. It’s hard to intellectually appreciate a difference in values when every fiber of your being is telling you that the other person is just being an asshole. And it’s hard to see the mechanics at work, because the press talks about Lefty movements and moments as if they magically just happen.

[...]

Righties don’t want to believe that. Thus, the same old horseshit: “oh it’s all George Soros.” “Oh we don’t get turnout for protests because we all have jobs.” “Oh we’d win a Second Civil War in five minutes anyway because the Lefties are wusses and we’ve got all the guns.”

It can’t possibly be that there’s work we need to do, work that we’ve been neglecting because we don’t understand how it works and we’re lazy. That’s unthinkable.

Well, think it. Because it’s true.

In fact, everyone ITT advocating to DO SOMETHING NOW needs to read that link.

The problem historically has been positional. "The left" is made up of people who want society's institutions destroyed or transformed. "The right" is people who more or less like things the way they are. People who want everything to be different and believe the society they swim in is a sea of evil are naturally motivated to act politically. People who go to work and have a fine day can't be bothered. The NRA, which he mentions in the article has been successful both because of its outreach and because gun owners wanted real change. On the subject of guns, the left has been on the defensive since the 1970s, because they took enough away from people that the desire for change has come from the right. Today, the left doesn't want change (they live largely gun-free lives) so much as they just want to punish rural, white conservatives.

But it's different now. The right is energized in a way it never has been before, and why? Because with Obergefell, there is no longer anything left to conserve. When you feel there's not much left to defend, you start seeing targets to attack. The right is now in a position where every major institution, from corporate board rooms to bureaucracies, is controlled by the left. We are in a political era where the left has attempted to stage a coup in order to deny us the right to even win elections. And now "we'll fiddle with tax rates" conservatism is unpopular, because it's missing the point. People want change, and the left is now in the position of trying to conserve its institutions rather than take over new ones.


#223 JC: Rwandan Genocide Denier

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 07:03 AM

Why is VelociFaptor such a bad poster? Can I organise a street protest about that?

#224 Rutger Kipling

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 08:59 AM

View PostJC: Rwandan Genocide Denier, on 03 May 2018 - 07:03 AM, said:

Why is VelociFaptor such a bad poster? Can I organise a street protest about that?

Onomastics is real.

#225 Angel Eyes: Acolyte of Saint Lilburn Boggs

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:03 AM

View Postdain, on 03 May 2018 - 03:06 AM, said:

In fact, everyone ITT advocating to DO SOMETHING NOW needs to read that link.

Very good piece.  I endorse Dain's statement.  I especially like this excerpt where it explains a strategy for community organizing:

Quote

The first thing I’m going to recommend is a decentralized approach I’ve been talking about occasionally for a while. It’s called Five Righties, based on the affinity group structure. Basically, put yourself together with a group of (ideally, but not necessarily) four other Righties you know well who share your politics. Give your group a goofy name. Boom: Five Righties. We’re not doing anything fancy here; these are the principles (cheerfully ripped off in part from Food Not Bombs):

Five Righties is about people, not money; about making positive rightward change, not making a buck.
Five Righties has no formal leaders or headquarters. It’s a tactic, not a movement. Every group is autonomous and makes its own decisions.
Five Righties is dedicated to nonviolent direct action and works for nonviolent social change. It is not a home for garbage people. If that doesn’t work for you, go somewhere else.
Again, it’s okay if you’re not actually five righties — maybe you start off with two or three or four people. Getting together is the important thing. Once you’ve got your group together, go do stuff. Simple stuff, to start. Leaflets and fliers promoting a simple, broadly appealing Righty message. I’m tired of going to coffeeshops and Ys and bakeries and looking at a bulletin board and seeing a bunch of fliers about Lefty things and no Righty ones. If you want to do more for visibility, pull some fun, silly stunts that don’t do any harm but draw attention to your message.

Do research on your town — since there are a bunch of you, divide up the work. Remember when you were a kid and wrote out your whole address: The Universe, The Solar System, Earth, America, State, and like that? Do that, but for the politicians who rule you. And their donors. And their allies. And their enemies. Learn who the movers and shakers are in your town. Same thing with your local press: who are the owners, publishers, editors, reporters? What are their interests, beats, vulnerabilities? Get contact information for all of them.

The most basic pressure tactic is just being a force multiplier: when you call your politicians, there’s five of you, so now instead of one call you’re making five. As you get more practice, and make more friends, you can build up lots of people to call your politicians.

Learn what other groups exist in your town: churches, clubs, business associations, that kind of thing. Go make friends. Get these friends doing stuff too, making their own groups. That’s how Lefties get numbers: they don’t have one group that tries to turn people out; they get a whole bunch of groups turning people out. The more groups you get, and the more people those groups have, the more visible your numbers are when it comes time for protests and actions.

This is what Ricky Vaughn (PBUH) was starting to talk about regularly before Boomer Judas Wiscariot got to him.  Figure out how to affect change on a local level.  Go be social.  Build some positive energy.  

Quote

Who cares bro, I gotta get ready for the road war!  The Libs are gonna kill us all and impeach Blumpf

Well if that does happen, wouldn't it be nice to have some friends and go be Rooftop Koreans together?

#226 PLEASUREMAN

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:31 AM

Hines is consistently good on how the right needs to change.  I don't think you necessarily need to read every Anarchist Cookbook knockoff out there, but yes the right needs to pull itself together.  It doesn't need to imitate rioting lefties but it needs to network.  In addition to what Hines says, I stress attacking the institutions the left controls with an eye to destroying them.  Globalist corporations?  Break them up.  Universities?  Chain them to their worthless loans and support the creation of higher level vocational training.  Media orgs?  Reverse the vertical integration and prevent ownership from crossing media boundaries (streaming, broadcast, radio, newspaper, cable, film, books).  Once you realize that super-scaled orgs are inherently anti-conservative, you'll see targets everywhere.  Note that Hines focuses on creating small decentralized groups (what I think the alt-right should have stayed as).  That's a very important point.  Even sharing a banner or label is a bad idea, as we can see.

#227 proper prole

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 11:54 AM

The optimal small group size for everyone to contribute to the conversation is four. Any larger and either one person dominates as storyteller/performer, or the group splits into smaller groups. Easy to watch this happen at parties.


#228 Rutger Kipling

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:11 PM

A group where it takes more than 5 minutes for every person to shake the hand of every other person is too large.

#229 Coach Grambler

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:39 PM

View PostRutger Kipling, on 03 May 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

A group where it takes more than 20 seconds for every person to shake the hand of every other person is too large.


#230 Jack of All Hates

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:41 PM

Confirmed:  TRS NEETs not in danger of being in too large a group

#231 orchid

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 06:44 AM

We had a guy who stopped making excuses and "just did it", his name is Dylan Roof

#232 orchid

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 07:49 AM

A good way to frame the current conflict is one of order versus chaos - the battle that's as old as humanity. Globalism vs Nationalism, anti-Americanism vs patriotism, hedonism vs tradition, crime vs law and order, open-borders vs hegemony. Left and right politics has always sort of been one of order vs chaos, but the left has recently embraced chaos with a cult-like fervor, and the the country these days craves order. We have to make it clear to the average person which side wants order and which wants the opposite.

#233 WaffleHouseBlues

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 04:52 PM

View Postorchid, on 06 May 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:

A good way to frame the current conflict is one of order versus chaos - the battle that's as old as humanity. Globalism vs Nationalism, anti-Americanism vs patriotism, hedonism vs tradition, crime vs law and order, open-borders vs hegemony. Left and right politics has always sort of been one of order vs chaos, but the left has recently embraced chaos with a cult-like fervor, and the the country these days craves order. We have to make it clear to the average person which side wants order and which wants the opposite.

It also used to be about kneeing hippies in the groin.

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#234 Groypergascar

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 01:28 AM

So the dissident right is finally starting to surface over here, and with it the impulse to 'do something.' A small fb group organizes a few cells that meet-up in the major centres.  Another group called the 'Dominion Movement' (a reference to our Imperial designation and a famous poem by Rex Fairburn) seems to be modeled after Generation Identity in Europe.  There's some appreciation of the alt-right's errors, but little original thought on the way forward. To their credit, they haven't done any harm, and eschew the tactics of the NZ National Front, which is our version of 1.0 American WN.  



What I want to do is nip any sort of activism in the bud that is a product of social dysfunction, or which could cause it.  

Over in the TRS thread, Pman makes the following observation.  

View PostPLEASUREMAN, on 01 May 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:


the reason is that negative emotional energy creates demands on personal allegiance but does not actually contribute to social bond formation (a kind of hivemind effect), therefore it depletes the energy of members who stay in the group (leading to a cycle of resentment) and alienates those who have healthy social bonds with others, who will naturally prefer social engagement that is positive (you see this behavior also with extreme partisans)

the profound social ignorance of TRS is perhaps best exemplified in their meetups...rather than working on their organic social relationships they put all their effort into recreating forum posting in real life, trying to make friends with other alienated losers, even though practical considerations as well as the human raw material meant that these meetups couldn't possibly satisfy basic social needs and would in fact have the contrary effect of further isolating them from normal people

An analysis of the psycho-social prerequisites to a healthy 'movement' (for want of a better word), and an operational concept that leads to positive social outcomes would be a productive discussion. One of the main conundrums that should be addressed is appropriate ways to resolve the discontinuity between the mainstream opinions of those you regularly interact with, and views that are now verboten by the ruling verities of our time.  Clown World don't distinguish between autistic racialism and taking an anti-fag stance, for example.  

To bring everyone up to speed, I've summarized the key findings of this thread to date:

TRIGGER WARNING

Edited by Julian Groyper, 10 May 2018 - 01:31 AM.



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