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#36661 Borrin Goldbags: Rootless Pozmopolitan

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 01:26 PM

I found MPC just a few weeks before Trump came down the Golden Escalator of Destiny. Both MPC and President Trump taught me a valuable lesson: bullying is the greatest force for good on earth. Here’s to 6 and a half more years of GEOTUS curb-stomping America’s enemies.

#36662 George Hiwuhi

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 01:46 PM

Quote

The best part of rereading the beginning of this thread is seeing great posters climb on the Trump Train, like this amazing John Rocker post from July 2015:

TOG joining the Trump Train is when I found hope for this fallen world.

#36663 Barack Hussein Abu Trayvon al-Zanji

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 07:27 PM

View PostLeg, on 07 July 2018 - 12:50 PM, said:



Also, hypothetically, if the US eventually became a white ethnostate, would we all get along? Or would we instinctively create divides based on arbitrary characteristics like hair or eye color. Brown eyes vs colored eyes for the big prize?
We know from homogeneous countries ranging from Iceland to Belarus to Japan that those ridiculous divisions simply don't happen. There are divides over language, but not eye or hair color within the same race (except among blacks who fight over slightly different skin shades). This also confirms that race is more than a simple cosmetic difference

#36664 I Mildly Touched Richard Dawkins

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 08:45 PM

It's been a long time, but the differences between otherwise racially indistingushable people is called a "nation."

The French and British of 1910 would be happy to tell you about how they hated the "Race' of germans.

#36665 Bernie (PBUH) Would Have Won AKA ENJ

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:06 AM



#36666 Hyperion

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 12:56 PM

I was on the train since the Golden Don descended down the escalator of destiny. Also, that DR PAUL MD comparison on page one of this thread had a net positive good boy points ranking back then. Plenty of people doubted Trump in those days. It's hard to recall just how cynical and utterly pessimistic the "alt-right" was back in the Most Current of All Current Years, 2015.

This site used to be a hell of a lot more like the rest of the alt-right, too, even though nobody here wants to admit it because it's embarrassing. Honestly there wasn't much of a difference between the TRS forums and MPC back in mid-2015, other than the fact that MPC was wittier and TRS more ideologically diverse at the time. Of course, that was also during the brief period when the 'alt-right' actually polled positively with the general public. Since then, basically every alt-right outlet has completely flown off the rails, and 'alt-right' literally just means 'Nazi' now, which I suppose was what most of the hardliners wanted because they didn't want the movement as a whole to go 'soft on the JQ.' They got what they wanted. MPC is the only section of the alt-right that hasn't gone off the rails, largely due to getting completely on board with Trump as a political force. Most of the 'movement,' such as it is or was, jumped off the train after Trump bombed the Syrian airstrip. Personally I think it reflects the true antisocial motivations of most of the alt-right, that their problems with the world aren't entirely politics related.

Almost a year later, PLEASUREMAN's excellent post-mortem thread on the Alt-Right is still golden:

View PostPLEASUREMAN, on 19 September 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

(If I were a f****t I would have put this in tweet form for all my gay f**king ADHD Twitter friends to read.)

Lessons learned:

- The alt-right attempted to grow too quickly without working towards mainstream sensibilities and succumbed to factionalism.

- The impetus for fast growth and factionalism was provided by deluded alt-right leaders who imagined themselves leading a much larger group, and who competed with each other for status.

- The alt-right never attracted enough smart, funny people to outweigh (sic) the mouth-breathers who swarmed to it hoping to find acceptance and a social life.

- The alt-right did not produce Trump's victory, which arose from Trump's variant populism, and subsequently quarreled over where to "draw the line" on Trump; the response to Trump highlighted multiple insecurities on the alt-right.

- The factional conflict was unproductive; nothing has emerged or cohered as a result.

- Untethered from Trump, the movement has almost no emotional energy to carry it forward.

- The establishment right remains a hollowed out and enervated force.  The talking head right is seen as inauthentic and futureless.  Something will have to fill this vacuum (not anything we've seen so far).

- The alt-right has failed to appreciate the degree to which the mainstream right is propped up by establishment money, therefore has attempted to build parallel institutions that have little chance of success due to lack of resources.

- The right in general is in a state of confusion because it never did its homework.  It has consistently failed to understand its own internal problems and conflicts (which require a larger sociological awareness to make sense of).  It has also ignored the sheer weight of mass society and therefore promotes solutions that are either ineffective or too grandiose ever to work.

- The alt-right ultimately failed because it was too angry and bitter, with no positive vision (a sign of the breakdown of social relationships).  Negative movements quickly burn themselves out because they require too much emotional energy to sustain; positive movements rejuvenate and build emotional energy.  No mass movement can succeed from an essentially negative base.

This can probably be expanded and built upon, but I think it covers all the bases.

The point about how the vacuum left by the hollowing out of the establishment right will need to be filled is still a valid one. So far, there is virtually no coherent 'Trump wing' of the GOP outside of Trump himself. The alt-right could have provided the new talking heads and fleshed-out ideology for Trumpism, but due to its own ideological rigidity and extremism was completely unable and unwilling to provide this. MPC is the closest there is to a contemporary Trumpist think tank as far as I know, and that is sort of a problem because we are all laypeople who post on an edgy internet forum.

What could be the solution? What would a "Trumpist" GOP establishment look like and how would it form and be maintained?

#36667 Pickup Autist: Khazar Milker Inspector

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 01:31 PM

View PostHyperion, on 08 July 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:


What could be the solution? What would a "Trumpist" GOP establishment look like and how would it form and be maintained?

Trumpists would have to learn to get over their pathological conservative laziness and inability to do things other than passively watch 6 hours of television a day. I don't mean to be demoralizing, but the sheer laziness of the right is pervasive in all of its varieties, as well as rank and file rightists being averse to actually supporting individuals/institutions that work in their favor.

Another factor, at least rhetorically, is learning how to frame and control the narrative- Trump is very good at this but even many of his high profile supporters are not. A Trumpist GOP would need to learn to reject the vocabulary and framing of the left in order to assert itself better in the media.

Edited by Pickup Autist: Khazar Milker Inspector, 08 July 2018 - 01:35 PM.


#36668 based_swede

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:37 PM

View PostPickup Autist: Khazar Milker Inspector, on 08 July 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

View PostHyperion, on 08 July 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:


What could be the solution? What would a "Trumpist" GOP establishment look like and how would it form and be maintained?

Trumpists would have to learn to get over their pathological conservative laziness and inability to do things other than passively watch 6 hours of television a day. I don't mean to be demoralizing, but the sheer laziness of the right is pervasive in all of its varieties, as well as rank and file rightists being averse to actually supporting individuals/institutions that work in their favor.

Another factor, at least rhetorically, is learning how to frame and control the narrative- Trump is very good at this but even many of his high profile supporters are not. A Trumpist GOP would need to learn to reject the vocabulary and framing of the left in order to assert itself better in the media.

I think a big factor here is that most of Trump's supporters have no idea what to do other than supporting the President. It's not just laziness. That's better than the "alt-right" who had ideas that were all terrible. Yesterday on Fox News there was a little segment on pro 2nd-amendment demonstrations in 13 locations in the country with a lot of young people in them.

There is no agenda, no coherent world-view, just symbolic gestures.

#36669 Barack Hussein Abu Trayvon al-Zanji

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:47 PM

View PostHyperion, on 08 July 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

I was on the train since the Golden Don descended down the escalator of destiny. Also, that DR PAUL MD comparison on page one of this thread had a net positive good boy points ranking back then. Plenty of people doubted Trump in those days. It's hard to recall just how cynical and utterly pessimistic the "alt-right" was back in the Most Current of All Current Years, 2015.

This site used to be a hell of a lot more like the rest of the alt-right, too, even though nobody here wants to admit it because it's embarrassing. Honestly there wasn't much of a difference between the TRS forums and MPC back in mid-2015, other than the fact that MPC was wittier and TRS more ideologically diverse at the time. Of course, that was also during the brief period when the 'alt-right' actually polled positively with the general public. Since then, basically every alt-right outlet has completely flown off the rails, and 'alt-right' literally just means 'Nazi' now, which I suppose was what most of the hardliners wanted because they didn't want the movement as a whole to go 'soft on the JQ.' They got what they wanted. MPC is the only section of the alt-right that hasn't gone off the rails, largely due to getting completely on board with Trump as a political force. Most of the 'movement,' such as it is or was, jumped off the train after Trump bombed the Syrian airstrip. Personally I think it reflects the true antisocial motivations of most of the alt-right, that their problems with the world aren't entirely politics related.

Almost a year later, PLEASUREMAN's excellent post-mortem thread on the Alt-Right is still golden:

View PostPLEASUREMAN, on 19 September 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

(If I were a f****t I would have put this in tweet form for all my gay f**king ADHD Twitter friends to read.)

Lessons learned:

- The alt-right attempted to grow too quickly without working towards mainstream sensibilities and succumbed to factionalism.

- The impetus for fast growth and factionalism was provided by deluded alt-right leaders who imagined themselves leading a much larger group, and who competed with each other for status.

- The alt-right never attracted enough smart, funny people to outweigh (sic) the mouth-breathers who swarmed to it hoping to find acceptance and a social life.

- The alt-right did not produce Trump's victory, which arose from Trump's variant populism, and subsequently quarreled over where to "draw the line" on Trump; the response to Trump highlighted multiple insecurities on the alt-right.

- The factional conflict was unproductive; nothing has emerged or cohered as a result.

- Untethered from Trump, the movement has almost no emotional energy to carry it forward.

- The establishment right remains a hollowed out and enervated force.  The talking head right is seen as inauthentic and futureless.  Something will have to fill this vacuum (not anything we've seen so far).

- The alt-right has failed to appreciate the degree to which the mainstream right is propped up by establishment money, therefore has attempted to build parallel institutions that have little chance of success due to lack of resources.

- The right in general is in a state of confusion because it never did its homework.  It has consistently failed to understand its own internal problems and conflicts (which require a larger sociological awareness to make sense of).  It has also ignored the sheer weight of mass society and therefore promotes solutions that are either ineffective or too grandiose ever to work.

- The alt-right ultimately failed because it was too angry and bitter, with no positive vision (a sign of the breakdown of social relationships).  Negative movements quickly burn themselves out because they require too much emotional energy to sustain; positive movements rejuvenate and build emotional energy.  No mass movement can succeed from an essentially negative base.

This can probably be expanded and built upon, but I think it covers all the bases.

The point about how the vacuum left by the hollowing out of the establishment right will need to be filled is still a valid one. So far, there is virtually no coherent 'Trump wing' of the GOP outside of Trump himself. The alt-right could have provided the new talking heads and fleshed-out ideology for Trumpism, but due to its own ideological rigidity and extremism was completely unable and unwilling to provide this. MPC is the closest there is to a contemporary Trumpist think tank as far as I know, and that is sort of a problem because we are all laypeople who post on an edgy internet forum.

What could be the solution? What would a "Trumpist" GOP establishment look like and how would it form and be maintained?

There was a definite Trumpist element in the tea party movement, but they focused a bit too much on Paul Ryan-esque fiscal positions. They also had good activism; they managed to turn out massive numbers of people to rallies and they had political organizing schools much like the left does, but these seem to have fizzled out as people got bored. On the bright side this shows there is an enormous potential for the right. My impression is that these tea party organizing schools weren't run by professional, ivy-league trained agitators, but by dedicated political novices. They had enormous success once they actually got off their asses and did something. We just need to get that machine running again.


So a permanent Trumpist GOP faction probably consists of:
1: A few ambitious politicians who may or may not be committed to the cause but see it as a path to political success, much like Trump himself. As long they're willing to enforce our will to win elections, that's enough. It's much better than cuckservatives who'd rather lose elections than work with us, like Senator Flake.

2: Various interest groups that stand against clown world. They don't all need to agree, they just need to not in-fight. Example are the NRA, pro-life groups, church groups, coal miners, Patriot Prayer groups, etc.

3: Deep pocketed donors. Robert Mercer isn't going to live forever.

4: The left literally has people writing Ph.D. theses on Marxist organizing methods. We need our own activism / protest networks. They don't need to be as sophisticated, but we need something. This is probably where your average MPC-er comes in.

5: Social media presence. As annoying as I find the phrase "meme war", it really did make an enormous difference.

6: A few celebrities or executives to make open support something palatable. It doesn't need to be popular at the NYT office party, just mainstream enough that Joe from Accounting won't get fired for openly supporting it.

#36670 PLEASUREMAN

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:59 PM

Indeed the vacuum has still not been filled.  The right has always depended on more rigid hierarchies by which the next generation ascends, but now you have this weird void created by massive establishment right failure.  A lot of them bet big against Trump and lost, losing much of their audience, 90% of which is staunchly with Trump.  But they're still there, propped up by the same confused money men who don't know what to do now.

For the first time I can recall, the money men on the right are not really in control of conservatism.  They are still running the largest part of the establishment apparatus, and they have effective control of Congress, but Trump is really in command of the agenda, and he has the hearts and minds.  They have to deal with him and his stirring of populist sentiments.

But it's still stage one.  Almost everyone in the establishment pipeline is still on the Dubya-era script--placate the base with culture war, and do the bidding of the donor class.  Think about how much of the local machine is still filled with people who are discombobulated by Trump's victory and confused by his agenda.

This is all complicated by the lack of imagination with which the conservative sees things.  Ordinarily the sudden failure of the dominant faction in a political movement would lead to the immediate rise of a counter-faction--think the progressive rise against the Clinton machine on the left.  But on the right there has been no significant counter-faction, hence the growing senility and out-of-touchness of the establishment right.  The base accepted leaders such as John McCain and Mitt Romney with barely a word of protest, even as they ran on timid, donor-serving platforms.  The right doesn't do counter-factions.  It falls in line behind whoever has the most money.

Despite the brief history of the alt-right, opposition to the establishment has been scattershot and there is no convincing successor ideology.  There is Trumpism, but it's barely an ideology.  That is going to be a problem, I can tell you, as someone who saw what happened to the very similar Reaganism.  Trump is more hands-on than Reagan, but he's also more of an outsider.  His long-term influence on the party will be limited.

It has to go farther than trade and immigration, because those things are too easy to fake out the base on--especially with the left staking out such extreme positions that business as usual looks like fighting back.

The problem is structural, and it's money.  The reason you don't see Trumpists rising into the Conservatism, Inc. ranks is that no one rises through Conservatism, Inc. ranks without money.  What does Conservatism, Inc. want?  Mostly they want cheerleaders for global capitalism, and the removal of all regulatory impediments.

I'll bet they can't get enough of Ben Shapiro.  Shapiro is a charisma-less nonentity who talks like a conservadroid that someone just fed a roll of quarters (big gubmint, corporate apologetics, abortion pandering).  Naturally he has a lifetime sinecure with all the rest of the culture war losers.  This obnoxious runt will never work another day in his life.  The closest he'll come to breaking a sweat is proofing Nancy French's galleys for his next book.

Conservatism, which has been telling the world that the solution to every problem is local, decentralized government, has no actual opinion on what local government should be, what local community should be.  It has no local institutions; it is out of touch with local politics.  It speaks down to the local level, but there is no mechanism for it to hear what is going on at the local level.  (This is why, after forty years and the passage of Obamacare, conservatism still has no actual health care platform.)

Had it had any real connection to local politics, it would not have been blindsided by loony white nationalists in the alt-right.  We wouldn't have needed Trump, either.  Had conservatives ever given a damn about anything going on outside their suburban bungalows, we'd have had a 30 year head start on reforming university, health care, trade, immigration, corporatism, etc.  But it is not the conservative way.  Maybe conservatism can only be saved by ignoring its own useless leaders.

#36671 REPORTERS YELL INDISTINCTLY

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 04:39 PM



The third straight year of merciless media bullying :allears:

Edited by REPORTERS YELL INDISTINCTLY, 08 July 2018 - 04:39 PM.


#36672 Dogmatic Tower

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:20 PM

View PostBarack Hussein Abu Trayvon al-Zanji, on 08 July 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

There was a definite Trumpist element in the tea party movement, but they focused a bit too much on Paul Ryan-esque fiscal positions. They also had good activism; they managed to turn out massive numbers of people to rallies and they had political organizing schools much like the left does, but these seem to have fizzled out as people got bored. On the bright side this shows there is an enormous potential for the right. My impression is that these tea party organizing schools weren't run by professional, ivy-league trained agitators, but by dedicated political novices. They had enormous success once they actually got off their asses and did something. We just need to get that machine running again.

The Tea Party was Trumpian in style but not in substance.  I was still a lefty then and I remember reading about how it was funded by the same billionaire cranks as so much else of the RW machine.  Nobody on the left was scared of the Tea Party the way they're scared of Trump.  Instead, we mocked them for having been duped into thinking Paul "zombie-eyed granny starver" Ryan and his "cat food" austerity and stock bubbles platform was anything new in American politics, rather than the same old muh tax cuts and muh job creators BS that the GOP had been pitching since forever.

#36673 Kebab saving robot

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:37 PM

When other Republicans blasted the press there was always an element of kayfabe to it. Even back in the day: if you dig up the famous Nixon clip of the "you don't have Nixon to kick around any more" speech he's smiling and joking as he says it. He says they have every right to give one candidate the shaft and pleads with them to put one honest reporter out there to balance things out. Every time a conservative complained about the press there's always this tone to it. Like, yeah, you guys beat me up now and then, but we're all in this special club together so let's not go too far, all right?

Trump is the first successful politician to really treat the press like an enemy and try to beat them. He doesn't waste time currying favor. He openly demeans them. Instead of trying to play nice he bends his efforts to reducing their influence over the country.

It's a beautiful thing. It will be nice when more Republicans figure things out.

#36674 Resident Autistic Fact Checker

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:48 PM

View PostDogmatic Tower, on 08 July 2018 - 05:20 PM, said:

The Tea Party was Trumpian in style but not in substance.  I was still a lefty then and I remember reading about how it was funded by the same billionaire cranks as so much else of the RW machine.  Nobody on the left was scared of the Tea Party the way they're scared of Trump.  Instead, we mocked them for having been duped into thinking Paul "zombie-eyed granny starver" Ryan and his "cat food" austerity and stock bubbles platform was anything new in American politics, rather than the same old muh tax cuts and muh job creators BS that the GOP had been pitching since forever.

I still see the Tea Party, Trump, and even Bernie to some extent as the gross dissatisfaction of normal people with the elites in the parties. Every single position Trump has taken is supported by an absolute majority of Americans, many of Trump's "most controversial" policies are supported by 60% of the American people. Trump because of his boisterous personality and decades of media scrutiny was able to withstand the attacks of all the elite institutions in the country and win.

View PostLeg, on 07 July 2018 - 12:50 PM, said:

Also, hypothetically, if the US eventually became a white ethnostate, would we all get along? Or would we instinctively create divides based on arbitrary characteristics like hair or eye color. Brown eyes vs colored eyes for the big prize?
Only on MPC are those with brown eyes and brown hair, huwhyte.

#36675 Dogmatic Tower

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 06:12 PM

I don't doubt that the actual protesters were mad as hell and had every right to be.  But ask yourself how radical President Romney would have been.  The GOPe has never wanted to harness popular sentiment to accomplish anything other than donor fellatio, and the Tea Party was an excellent example of that.  And if you went over to the guy in the tricorner hat with little tea bags hanging from it, and tried to explain that to him, he'd have laughed in your face.  Since he's white, I guarantee he's stupid enough to believe that lowering the capital gains tax rate (which he doesn't pay) would make his life better.

Edited by Dogmatic Tower, 08 July 2018 - 06:24 PM.


#36676 Korematsu Maru

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 06:36 PM

The Tea Party was successful in that it was made up of middle-class normie-cons who were villified as racist, nazi, dangerous scum. The sight of such essentially harmless people asking for budget restraint being subjected to such treatment brought honor to those to the right of the Tea Partiers who were arguing, down to the individual level, that their approach was too weak and would bring down the wrath of the state even so.

When that then happened, especially with regard to the IRS abuses, many hitherto moderate conservatives felt the urge, in Mencken's immortal words, to hoist high the skull and crossbones and start slitting throats.

One of the keys to Trump's rise was the laughable overreaction of the elite to such a harmless and mainstream protest movement.

It hammered home that we cannot do business with the opposition. They have to be beat.

Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.

#36677 No-One of Consequence

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:16 PM

Vox Day has written buckets about Shapiro, AKA The Littlest Chickenhawk.  You can find plenty on his blog about Shapiro that I doubt anybody here would really disagree with.

#36678 Jane: Baby Putin-Pawn Authoritarian

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:22 PM

View PostREPORTERS YELL INDISTINCTLY, on 08 July 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:



The third straight year of merciless media bullying :allears:

When that video popped up in the twitter feed, I assumed that the RNC made it, but it's clearly an amateur job (they didn't edit out the Young Turks swearing).  Holy s**t, Donald Trump re-tweets fan-made victory videos of himself.  This is truly the best timeline.

#36679 Tyger of Wrath: Boomer Conservation Ranger

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 08:06 PM

My concern is about what happens after Trump leaves office - who fills the void? PMAN is right to say that Trump's status as a political outsider will hamper his long-term impact. His comparison to Reagan is a good one. Reagan was hated by the money men and the establishment types in the party, and he had little lasting influence upon those people, though his popularity meant that he was canonized by the GOP despite the fact that he would have been shunned by the money men and the goblins populating the pages of National Review if he had ran in 2012. Papa Bush was cucking on immigration in 1980, when he complained that we weren't compassionate as to the needs of the good, decent hard-working people of Mexico, who should be here legally to address our labor needs (though to be fair, Reagan was very squishy on the border, as well). The GOP's status as power bottom for multinational corporate interests has deep roots.

And it's a shame, because the Republican Party from its outset was a protectionist party. Had Lincoln had the chance to be a peace-time president, his agenda would have been one of internal improvements and economic protectionism. The Republican Party was necessary to counter the interests of the plantation class in the South, who were f**king over white people looking for opportunity in new territories by insisting that these territories permit slavery. These whites couldn't compete with free labor, and they naturally flocked to the Republican Party, which formed primarily out of opposition to the Kansas-Nebraska Act. I'm a proud Southron, but our plantation-owning elites were scum of the highest order and are analogous to today's corporate CEOs who outsource manufacturing to the Third World and have hollowed out much of Middle America. High tariffs were a core plank of the party platform into the 20th century, and though the GOP was increasingly morphing into the party of Big Business during that time, there were also people like Teddy Roosevelt, one of our finest presidents, fighting for social reform and antitrust enforcement.

Of course, the party is now obsessed with free trade and mass migration, and these issues are as important to them as the fundamental right of men to chop their dicks off and use the women's bathroom is to the progressive Left. Trump is doing amazing things to counter them, but the movement is fragile, and it'll be challenging going forward to maintain momentum and ensure that our progress isn't reversed. I'm not blackpilling so much as I'm being cautiously optimistic - three years ago, we would never have dreamed that this much progress could have been made. Trump coming down the escalator changed everything. But the fight is far from finished, and there is much work yet to be done.

#36680 wahwah

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 03:16 AM

View PostJane: Baby Putin-Pawn Authoritarian, on 08 July 2018 - 07:22 PM, said:

View PostREPORTERS YELL INDISTINCTLY, on 08 July 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:



The third straight year of merciless media bullying :allears:

When that video popped up in the twitter feed, I assumed that the RNC made it, but it's clearly an amateur job (they didn't edit out the Young Turks swearing).  Holy s**t, Donald Trump re-tweets fan-made victory videos of himself.  This is truly the best timeline.

The craziest thing is that it was just some random 20k view youtube compilation from a year and a half ago.  I like to think that Trump sits around all day bathing in the nostalgia much like myself when I want a pick me up.







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