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Jordan B Peterson thread

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#21 Bronze Age Prude

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 07:42 AM

Presented without comment or context:



#22 Vegan Spree Shooter

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 10:07 AM

View PostJimmy Hill, on 20 January 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

Peterson has recently been trending on Youtube thanks to his gentle but complete annihilation of Leftist interviewer Cathy Newman on British TV station Channel 4*:[snip]

And now he's now being subjected to a strategic smear in the British press on the grounds that, in the aftermath of that interview, Cathy Newman got trolled online (*gasp, faint*) and her employer decided to call in security. A sampling of takes:

Did Jordan Peterson just RAPE a woman on LIVE TV? :

Quote

For those angry at the recent resurgence of feminism, they have had to wait for their moment. It’s not easy to defend a serial rapist, or even a one-off rapist, although some people do – let’s not forget that 63 million people recently voted for an alleged offender as President. It’s not easy to defend a sexual harasser, either, although even more people do that. But it is very easy to attack Cathy Newman, the female trickle-down media whore whose male editor thought it would be a good idea to interview Jordan Peterson.

You see, Harvey Weinstein raped their bodies, but Jordan Peterson raped their minds. Also 'One-Off Rapist' is u/a.

BUCKOGATE :

Quote

Sick messages posted online after the interview on Tuesday included ‘RIP Cathy Newman’ and ‘Cathy Newman we know where you live’.

She doesn't deserve death threats, obviously. Then again, how does anyone know these are even real, let alone credible? After that recent Muslim hate hoax in Toronto JBP is well aware of the phenomenon, and in fact has righteously pushed back:

TRIGGER WARNING

But back to the matter at hand.

Quote

The mother-of-two was also called a ‘b****’ in more than 500 postings and was the target of other obscene misogynistic messages.

Ms Newman, 43, suffered further distress yesterday when her 13-year-old daughter found a pornographic mock-up on Instagram of her mother with Dr Peterson.

Sorry Cathy, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from getting called a bitch online :smug:

I collected these links from JBP's twitter feed. Unfortunately his crisis management has gotten rusty since the last time he rode the bull, as he does appear panicked over the potentially bad PR. Every tweet he makes calling for a more civil debate only seems to confirm the trolls as his legitimate followers, every time he retweets another hatchet job of an article he opens himself to spin that he's simply directing his troll army, and basically every time he tweets about it at all he appears more emotionally involved, which is just about the only thing that can fragilize his current position. This entire episode has been the best PR he could have hoped for, personally and politically - the reaction confirms that he successfully pushed the dial right - and he should rest secure in that knowledge without frantically trying to shape the outcome.

Edited by Vegan Yeoperson, 21 January 2018 - 10:10 AM.


#23 Blaire White's Fiance

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 10:42 AM



This thread arouses mixed feelings in me, because while I like a lot of what JRP says, throwing Faith Goldy under the bus was the act of a coward and cuckold and imo revealed a lot about who he actually is as a person (also pretty hypocritical for a "free speech" advocate to support no-platforming solely on the basis of who a person spoke to, and not because of anything she said). The fact that he speaks glowingly about Jews and individualism is another red flag. He's obviously bright and gets a lot right, but I don't feel comfortable promoting his work to normies anymore, because his function isn't that different from myriad other self-help gurus - he's a cul de sac, discouraging people from thinking too deeply about the problems that afflict society and instead encouraging them to turn inward and focus on themselves and their personal lives. This may well have been good advice when JRP was an adolescent (he is a Boomer after all), but when the system at large undercuts healthy and productive living while subsidizing parasitism, telling people who are already inclined to virtue (otherwise they wouldn't be drawn to JRP's lectures on the topic) to lead virtuous lives doesn't help. He has no good answers to the Big Questions and his "debate" (if you can call it that) with Sam Harris was embarrassing.



(I can't advise listening to this, did so myself and thought it was a giant waste of time, only linking to it for the benefit of the morbidly curious.)

He's Tony Robbins for millennials.

Edited by concave chested AIDS scarecrow, 21 January 2018 - 11:55 AM.


#24 Malthusian Daydream

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 11:38 AM

View PostWineglass, on 21 January 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

ape-serpent dynamics

e.g. "The Jew is using the Black as muscle against you"

#25 Colonel Wompy

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:41 PM

View PostWineglass, on 21 January 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

I started watching his online lectures around the same time I discovered MPC.]

It will take more to get unchaperoned, my friend. But you're on the right track.

#26 ghostlife

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:49 PM

Like others here, many of his messages are great & exactly what f****t young people need to hear and internalize, but his theological views rub me the wrong way and border on heresy

#27 REPORTERS YELL INDISTINCTLY

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 01:07 PM

View PostVegan Yeoperson, on 21 January 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

She doesn't deserve death threats

Journalists deserve everything that's coming to them. Obviously, don't send them death threats but only because it's bad tactics.

View PostVegan Yeoperson, on 21 January 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

he should rest secure in that knowledge without frantically trying to shape the outcome.

He's not on Trump level, completely unshakable and firing back with a grin, but he had some good responses



and accepted backup from his supporters



#28 Pickup Autist: Khazar Milker Inspector

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 01:09 PM

View Postconcave chested AIDS scarecrow, on 21 January 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

throwing Faith Goldy under the bus was the act of a coward and cuckold

all you needed to say is that your disagreement with him is really based on him slighting your virtual fashy girlfriend

#29 Blaire White's Fiance

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 01:19 PM

View PostPickup Autist, on 21 January 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

View Postconcave chested AIDS scarecrow, on 21 January 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

throwing Faith Goldy under the bus was the act of a coward and cuckold

all you needed to say is that your disagreement with him is really based on him slighting your virtual fashy girlfriend

all you needed to say is that your disagreement with me is really based on me slighting your virtual gay dad who raped you (and now you're gay)

"Slighting" is fine, but de-platforming someone from a "free speech" event on the basis of who that person gave a podcast interview to is just pathetic; sorry if that rustles your jimmies. I notice that you're not actually defending his behavior but are instead attacking my motives for criticizing it. This is a good tactic on your part because his behavior was in fact indefensible.

JBP is certainly a very bright guy, but his character leaves a lot to be desired.

#30 Pickup Autist: Khazar Milker Inspector

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 01:43 PM

View Postconcave chested AIDS scarecrow, on 21 January 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

View PostPickup Autist, on 21 January 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

View Postconcave chested AIDS scarecrow, on 21 January 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

throwing Faith Goldy under the bus was the act of a coward and cuckold

all you needed to say is that your disagreement with him is really based on him slighting your virtual fashy girlfriend

all you needed to say is that your disagreement with me is really based on me slighting your virtual gay dad who raped you (and now you're gay)

"Slighting" is fine, but de-platforming someone from a "free speech" event on the basis of who that person gave a podcast interview to is just pathetic; sorry if that rustles your jimmies. I notice that you're not actually defending his behavior but are instead attacking my motives for criticizing it. This is a good tactic on your part because his behavior was in fact indefensible.

JBP is certainly a very bright guy, but his character leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't even follow JBP, his lectures are meandering and don't hold my attention. The far right criticisms of Peterson are based on placing strange expectations on him, such as when the twitter right were "disappointed" on his generally normie views on race.  He's good at holding his frame and articulating some points well against shitlibs, but otherwise is a generic conservative/liberal. I find it absurd to "grade" him based on some far right rubric, which seems to be the standard MO when it turns out a public figure the right misinterpreted wasn't '/ourguy/' all along. What would you expect a fairly liberal psychologist if presented evidence that Faith Goldy was featured on a "nazi" website? Calling out him out on his character is a complete waste of time.

#31 Tyger of Wrath: Boomer Conservation Ranger

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 01:53 PM

View Postghostlife, on 21 January 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

Like others here, many of his messages are great & exactly what f****t young people need to hear and internalize, but his theological views rub me the wrong way and border on heresy

I think it goes beyond that -- implying that the Gospels are allegorical or just good moral teaching definitely crosses over into heresy. I haven't watched a whole lot of Peterson, but from what I've heard his philosophy seems to be rooted in rationalist materialism with a pro-religion bent. It certainly couldn't be considered Christian.

#32 Blaire White's Fiance

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 02:22 PM

View PostPickup Autist, on 21 January 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

I don't even follow JBP, his lectures are meandering and don't hold my attention. The far right criticisms of Peterson are based on placing strange expectations on him, such as when the twitter right were "disappointed" on his generally normie views on race.  He's good at holding his frame and articulating some points well against shitlibs, but otherwise is a generic conservative/liberal. I find it absurd to "grade" him based on some far right rubric, which seems to be the standard MO when it turns out a public figure the right misinterpreted wasn't '/ourguy/' all along. What would you expect a fairly liberal psychologist if presented evidence that Faith Goldy was featured on a "nazi" website? Calling out him out on his character is a complete waste of time.

Good idea to spew a bunch of squid ink about "far right criticisms" and "far right rubric." Which European shithole do you come from again? Do you write for the Grauniad? Aside from expressing mild disapproval of his effusive praise for the Jews, nothing I've said about him can be fairly characterized as "far right." My claim is that it was cowardly and hypocritical of him to de-platform a person from a so-called "free speech event" on the basis of that person having appeared on a controversial podcast. Your defense is to ask what I would expect a "fairly liberal psychologist" to do in that situation. Well, if said psychologist had even half a sack, I would expect him to allow the person to speak freely at the "free speech" event (rather than de-platform her), then criticize the person for appearing on the podcast and explain why he thought she shouldn't have done it. The person could then explain or defend her behavior, and observers of the dialogue could decide on the basis of this exchange who was right and who was wrong. That's what makes freedom of speech valuable.

(Maybe you need to read the MPC Statement on Free Speech again).

Now, if we are taking for granted that the "fairly liberal psychologist" is a cuckservative or antifa supporter, then of course I would expect him to behave exactly as he did. And if it is your position that JBP is a cuck, then we're on the same page. But one needn't agree with a person in order to support their right to freedom of speech. If you only support free speech for people you agree with (or at least don't disagree TOO strongly with), then you don't actually support it at all. And if you claim to be a "free speech" advocate while de-platforming people because of who they talk to (again, it must be stressed that she didn't even say anything controversial in the podcast; the entire uproar was over her giving a platform to people JBP thought should be no-platformed, and so he de-platformed her for not no-platforming them), then you're a hypocrite, and hypocrisy is a character flaw.

You're welcome to think that calling him out is a waste of time, but then I wonder why you don't think it's a waste of time to tell me that.

#33 Pro-soy Feminist

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 02:52 PM

Disassociating from losers like Faith Goldy was the best he could do.


View PostTyger of Wrath, on 21 January 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

View Postghostlife, on 21 January 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

Like others here, many of his messages are great & exactly what f****t young people need to hear and internalize, but his theological views rub me the wrong way and border on heresy

I think it goes beyond that -- implying that the Gospels are allegorical or just good moral teaching definitely crosses over into heresy. I haven't watched a whole lot of Peterson, but from what I've heard his philosophy seems to be rooted in rationalist materialism with a pro-religion bent. It certainly couldn't be considered Christian.


You are seriously misrepresenting what his intentions and claims are:


https://youtu.be/-yUP40gwht0?t=7122

#34 Bonobo Mindset

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 03:05 PM

I like Peterson, with the reservations which have been amply stated elsewhere in this thread. I have listened to and generally enjoyed his podcast. Most podcasts are dull, so that alone is worth something.

Peterson is useful in the sex war, and until he rapes someone or starts writing instruction manuals about how to please Filipino hookers, that is good enough for me. On one of his shows, he shared a letter from a female fan who speculated that Peterson was attempting to help re-awaken the dormant masculinity of the western world. Presumably Peterson shared this letter because that is what he’s up to, but wouldn’t admit so directly in his own words. I’m surprised no one has mentioned that he also seems woke to the MQ. Keeping in mind that he lives in Canada, the country that (eg) put Mark Steyn on trial for blaspheming the prophet, this seems pretty brave. He has floated the hypothesis that western women are sympathetic to Islam because western men have abdicated their own responsibilities, an idea I’ve only seen before on frog twitter. He’s also said that Islam was founded on conquest and that its totalizing, violent universalism appears incompatible with our civilization.

Edited by Bonobo Mindset, 21 January 2018 - 03:08 PM.


#35 Alph

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 03:27 PM

I'd also make the case that Peterson's value is much higher than it might appear. I'm no millennial, and I am a practicing Catholic, but something about his talks speaks to me in a way that most other commentary doesn't. I can rarely listen to most of the talking heads on youtube for more than five minutes, but over the past year I've spent a lot of time listening to his lectures. Some of his advice may simply be old common sense in slick packaging, but anyone who starts following it is at least starting to move in the right direction. Even his famous line about the place to start being by cleaning your room is a small step towards becoming a functional adult.

Like most right wing voices, Peterson is trying to stake out safe ground where he can at least avoid the worst accusations of simply being alt-right, a nazi, etc. (In the long run, of course, I suspect this wont' be possible.) At some points he has gone too far, such as when he seemed to say that anyone taking pride in what their ancestor's did was crazy. I certainly don't agree with that, but I do think his overall point is to get people to improve their own lives instead of trying to blame everything wrong in life on "them", whatever that might be. And if you're a young NEET, trying to figure out what to do with yourself, getting your head out of your ass is a much better thing to do than buying into the hustler bullshit of characters like Adolf Skywalker.

Anyway, I do think a lot of what he says has helped me to improve my own life. I've actually got tickets to hear him speak in NYC next Tuesday, I'm looking forward to it. We'll see what he has to say...

#36 Jack of All Hates

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 03:27 PM

Is he our guy?  Is he useful to me?  How orthodox is he on the JQ and WN?  Why can't I get on TV and talk AND FRICKIN' NAME THE JEW THAT WILL SAVE US HE SHOULD DO THAT

:trs:


#37 Bernie (PBUH) Would Have Won AKA ENJ

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 03:43 PM

View Postconcave chested AIDS scarecrow, on 21 January 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

View PostPickup Autist, on 21 January 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

View Postconcave chested AIDS scarecrow, on 21 January 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

throwing Faith Goldy under the bus was the act of a coward and cuckold

all you needed to say is that your disagreement with him is really based on him slighting your virtual fashy girlfriend

all you needed to say is that your disagreement with me is really based on me slighting your virtual gay dad who raped you (and now you're gay)

"Slighting" is fine, but de-platforming someone from a "free speech" event on the basis of who that person gave a podcast interview to is just pathetic; sorry if that rustles your jimmies. I notice that you're not actually defending his behavior but are instead attacking my motives for criticizing it. This is a good tactic on your part because his behavior was in fact indefensible.

JBP is certainly a very bright guy, but his character leaves a lot to be desired.

What absolute bullshit, how many f**king times do I have to go over this? It wasn't just the bloody interview, the stupid cunt had been fawning over Spencer in one of her articles, getting chummy with the Charlottesville people and her twitter contained more than a few unsubtle hints about where her sympathies were. You really think it's a coincidence that Goldy started calling herself a white nationalist mere DAYS after Peterson rejected her?

Dumbcunts like you who uncritically buy into TRS narratives disgust me, I made a post about this over a month ago, I laid out all the evidence but as usual we have to go over this nonsense again and again. Peterson doesn't appeal to me personally but I'm not going to just sit here and watch you s**t all over his reputation just because he patrolled a common e-thot. If you become a liability you get thrown under the bus, it's that simple. WN's don't ever give us the benefit of the doubt and we won't be giving it to them, let those stupid f**king hypocrites BAWWWWWWWWWWWW about fairness all they want.

#38 Ethnical Mistake

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 04:01 PM

However you feel about his movement sympathies, JBP produces RAW MEMETIC POTENTIAL:

Posted Image

Posted Image

#39 Blaire White's Fiance

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 04:36 PM

View PostPrime Minister Mark Latham (PBUH) AKA ENJ, on 21 January 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

What absolute bullshit, how many f**king times do I have to go over this? It wasn't just the bloody interview, the stupid cunt had been fawning over Spencer in one of her articles, getting chummy with the Charlottesville people and her twitter contained more than a few unsubtle hints about where her sympathies were. You really think it's a coincidence that Goldy started calling herself a white nationalist mere DAYS after Peterson rejected her?

Dumbcunts like you who uncritically buy into TRS narratives disgust me, I made a post about this over a month ago, I laid out all the evidence but as usual we have to go over this nonsense again and again. Peterson doesn't appeal to me personally but I'm not going to just sit here and watch you s**t all over his reputation just because he patrolled a common e-thot. If you become a liability you get thrown under the bus, it's that simple. WN's don't ever give us the benefit of the doubt and we won't be giving it to them, let those stupid f**king hypocrites BAWWWWWWWWWWWW about fairness all they want.

Oh wow, sorry I so badly misunderstood the situation, I didn't realize she was a WHITE NATIONALIST. I am 100% on board with de-platforming WHITE NATIONALISTS. As a general matter I support free speech, but not for WHITE NATIONALISTS (or anyone else I disagree with). Thanks for clarifying.



#40 PLEASUREMAN

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 05:02 PM

imo you can't blame Peterson for steering clear of free speech signaling, he lives in Canada and they absolutely have no free speech

someone in his position has to tread carefully in order to retain access to political moderates...stealing moderates away from the left is the ultimate goal, and in many cases that means controlling our rhetoric

I exclude MPC from such considerations normally because this is a small discussion forum, not large enough to receive attention anyway, where we engage in high level argument (and low level shitposting) and where it is important that language per se not be circumscribed because I believe that dampens creative thought (of course I exclude people who I believe cannot contribute substantively to either argument or entertaining shitposting, like white nationalists and Gwerks)



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