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Fascism and its apologists
the unconventional greatness of Adolf Hitler


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#1 Fascist Faggot Florian

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:46 PM

View PostTAO: Your Racial Soul, on 20 January 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

I would not discard the thesis that the structure of the economy has some causal power over mass moral behavior. After all, Big Media's (and recently Big Tech's) prominent role in the culture wars is mostly due to their quasi-monopolic status. But this is all relatively weak, since 1. The poz is older than capitalism and managerialism; and 2. It doesn't imply that, in the absence of these economic factors, a traditional moral order would automatically appear.

''Conservatives'' in America have no actual platform.  I don't think they have since the death of Robert Taft, frankly, and by the time he shuffled off this mortal coil, the Old Right coalition of Hamiltonian isolationists, agrarian Romantics, and Jeffersonian nativists had been essentially defanged by the relentless assault of FDR, Frankfurter and cronies.  Really, as Murray Rothbard pointed out, the GOP is simply a party of military capitalism and its devoid of a political bent - the exception being Nixon's effort to give real political legs to the post-1964 new coalition of White voters but we all know how the Jews and their shabbos goy fellow travelers responded to that effort.

So in essence America has a party that is a defense industry cipher, recently animated by Zionist ideologues, that claims it is interested in public morals because it trots out shrill church ladies like Bachmann who finger wag over things like bad language and sexual hygiene and faux Catholics like Santorum who speak incessantly of ''family values'' - which in reality translates to a cloying lifestyle preference for a lesser stage of alienation (nuclear family in isolation) in lieu of a greater stage of alienation (unfettered expressive individualism and state promoted sodomy).  

A party that is committed to guarding public morals looks like the NSDAP or Hezbollah - pious men under arms enforcing the natural order.  There really isn't a middle ground in the modern state on these kinds of questions.
Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.  ASK ME ABOUT WEARING MY NAZI ARMBAND TO DENNY'S

#2 PLEASUREMAN

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:54 PM

I think you said something about this in chat, I actually find the Nazi Party to be a very un-conservative phenomenon.  These fascist movements are a kind of "right wing left" that react against other parts of the left.  I'm not talking about Jonah Goldberg's facile "liberal fascism", but without an extreme left the Nazis really don't come about, and at the same time Nazi style fascism destroys the dying conservatism that attempts to restrain or control it.

Who are the people drawn to Nazi ideology?  Extremists, misfits, people with a grievance not just against the current order but against the old order as well.
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#3 Fascist Faggot Florian

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 04:17 PM

View PostPLEASUREMAN, on 20 January 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

I think you said something about this in chat, I actually find the Nazi Party to be a very un-conservative phenomenon.  These fascist movements are a kind of "right wing left" that react against other parts of the left.  I'm not talking about Jonah Goldberg's facile "liberal fascism", but without an extreme left the Nazis really don't come about, and at the same time Nazi style fascism destroys the dying conservatism that attempts to restrain or control it.

That's the kind of thing Libertarians often attack people with.  Any kind of modern state is ''left wing'', etc.  Its an ahistorical view.  The development of the modern state, the democratic revolutions, the extrication of absolutism from the monarch to the state apparatus itself, the prospect of total mobilization and total war, the ascendancy of Communism, the collapse of the Jus Publicum Europeum, the rise of the colored world, all of these things rendered the traditional social relationships and modes of life impossible.  The solution was a kind of ''ethical socialism'', tailored to protect the cohesion, moral consensus, and biological integrity of the national community.  Paul Gottfried, believe it or not, wrote a fantastic defense of Strasser in the late 1960s; which in some ways represented his first divorce from Von Misean thought.  The key point, as Spengler made as well, was that the reactionary allergy to ''socialism'' is a counterproductive and delusional prejudice - ethical socialism in fact was the only ''conservative'' force in the world after 1918, and remains so to this day.  I don't accept, for example, that the Alawite Baathists in Syria are ''left wing'' because they practice Arab socialism in lieu of allowing finance capitalists to dictate policy.

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Who are the people drawn to Nazi ideology?  

Depends on who and what you're talking about.  National Socialism, despite the writings of eccentrics like Rosenberg, wasn't and isn't some elaborate and rigid ideology.  Its essentially a doctrine of racial socialism, premised upon natural patterns of life, labor, association, and command and obedience.  It was the ''right wing'' response to deracinated capitalism and the Bolshevik threat.  If you think Hitler was ''evil'', National Socialism was awful, if you believe in Holocausts and that kind of silliness, you aren't ''right wing'' - you're some kind of liberal with reservations or a peace love and dope Libertarian who got mad when naggers moved into his neighborhood.

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Extremists, misfits, people with a grievance not just against the order but against the old order as well.

That's a popular perception, but I don't agree with it.  In Weimar it was war in the streets.  The ''old order'' was dead and it wasn't going to be necromanced.  Men like Schubner-Richter, Rohm, Hitler, Gobbells did what had to be done.  I don't think they were losers or unpatriotic.  Quite the contrary.  It wouldn't really have been the thing to do to refuse to accept the reality of historical development and pine for a return to monarchy - that would have just meant the KPD would conquer the country while a tiny minority of senile monarchists lamented it.  What really happened was that men of the Right took the fight to Communism and killed them.  Conservatives don't like direct action because apparently everybody is supposed to participate in an endless discussion and ''get to yes'' no matter how badly we are under threat.  This is one reason why Conservatives lose 100 percent of the time.  I don't look up to losers.  I look up to men who have courage.
Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.  ASK ME ABOUT WEARING MY NAZI ARMBAND TO DENNY'S

#4 PLEASUREMAN

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 04:42 PM

I think what you're observing when you talk about a weakened, deracinated conservatism is that conservatism/tradition is completely at odds with mass society.  There is no way around it.  Fascism is an attempt to reconcile the (superficially conservative) Right with mass society.  It is, as history shows, a spectacular failure.  Apart from the degenerate Nazi leadership--homosexuals like Rohm, bitter malcontents like Hitler, psychopaths like Goebbels--the fascists ultimately could not hang onto their own followers, and their rule collapsed on itself.  If you look up to them you do so from a trench, possibly a latrine.

You are right in one respect, conservatism is not consistent with continent-spanning bloodbaths, with the murder of millions of innocents, with psychotic, drug-addicted leaders, or with any of the other brutalities that go hand in glove with fascist rule.
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#5 Fascist Faggot Florian

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 09:25 PM

View PostPLEASUREMAN, on 21 January 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

I think what you're observing when you talk about a weakened, deracinated conservatism is that conservatism/tradition is completely at odds with mass society.  There is no way around it.  Fascism is an attempt to reconcile the (superficially conservative) Right with mass society.  It is, as history shows, a spectacular failure.

There are a lot of criticisms in this post, jumbled in with a lot of hyperbole.

Conservatism is indeed at odds with mass society, which is why it is fundamentally important that religiosity, piety, authority, obedience, cultural and racial hygiene, and communitarian ethics (ethical socialism) must be maintained and enforced by the managerial apparatus.  The assumptions of ''conservatism'' essentially belong to an early modern period of European life, when a robust and truly private sphere of life existed that was discrete and insular from political affairs existed and when absolutism remained vested in the person of the King rather than attaching to a unitary state.  The brief period between the decline of monarchy and the rise of the State is not in some way a distilled microcosm of Western ''tradition'', nor does it exemplify the perennial institutions in Aryan-derived societies.  If anything, the Third Reich was a return to the traditions of the White, Western world, not a deviation from them.  If you consult Dumezil's extensive oeuvre on the structure, rites, theologies, mores, and modes of authority of Aryan man you will find that the trifunctional social order is the 'traditional' order.  Rule by petit nobles and commercial barons, situated throughout arbitrarily appropriated land in contrast is distinctively modernist.

With respect to the 'spectacular failure' of National Socialism, that kind of sentiment is problematic for a number of reasons.  Not the least of which being that that which is honorable or true, or pure of purpose stands on its own merit.  War and peace, patriotism, loyalty, sacrifice is not an NFL game.  The acts of men in the service of history aren't to be judged by ''winning'' if the men in question were willing to (and did) kill and die in the service of sacred causes.  This is another modernist, and particularly liberal conceit - it reminds me of these people who claim that mujuahdeen who hijack aircraft and commit suicide are ''cowards''.  It betrays a real lack of insight into what animates men towards violence, belief, partisanship, hatred, love, and a slew of other higher emotions.

Aside from how we might characterize National Socialism morally or aesthetically, its important to consider the world-historical circumstance in which it emerged.  That world is alien to you, myself and virtually everybody else alive today.  Its conceptually remote.  Consider that after the victory of the United Kingdom over White yeomen in the Second Boer War in 1901, and the concomitant victory of a coalition of Western powers in crushing the Boxer Rebellion, the entire planet save for a handful of territories (Siam, Japan, Turkey, Persia, Afghanistan, Liberia, Abyssinia, Mexico and Haiti), was directly ruled by the West.  In China and Dar Al Islam, White peoples were exempt from local jurisdiction and were availed only to the courts and laws of their own national representatives.  The conduct of the entire colored world towards the White man was deferential - there was an underlying passive acceptance of the colored world that the white world was the master of the Earth.  This was exemplified most splendidly, as Lothrop Stoddard and Francis Parker Yockey both noted, in India - where a mere 100,000 man strong garrison of the British Army was able to handily manage a population of 350,000,000 natives.  

With this great achievement came great responsibility and ultimately great comity between the White, Western peoples.  Paul Kruger (Trekboer warrior of some folkloric distinction) for example refused to arm and field Negro troops against the English despite being disadvantaged by crippling odds.  There was an understanding between White men that no matter how severe the stakes of political conflict, there must remain a condominium between the White nations to guard their supremacy over the Earth and to guarantee the posterity of our great wealth for future generations.

This amity between Western nations was shattered in 1914, as the capitalist age came to a close and great power rivalry could no longer be staved off through the provision of colonial spoils.  Werner Sombart had predicted this turn of events.  As England's guiding political idea (capitalism, liberty, individual reason) became creatively exhausted and Germany's progressive and superpersonal ethical socialism gained spiritual momentum, a crisis between the two states became largely inevitable.  The Great War resulted in a draw between the UK and Germany that was upended by the senseless intervention of America, stuporously agitated by Wilsonian 'globalsim' and anti-Hapsburg sectarian bigotry - but the consequences of the war were far graver than a mere upset of the balance of the European power condominium.  Russia had cast off and murdered its authentically European ruling caste, and had implemented a doctrine of violent revolt, and ultimate overthrow of the White world.  It had become, in essence, a monstrous conduit for colored revolt against the West.  The sovereign power that had resided exclusively in Europe prior to the War had been steadily transferred to Russia, Japan, America.  As the war had bled on, Europe itself as a civilizational form had been losing.  In the ruins of this aftermath, an inner idea of ethical socialism was cultivated by men, hardened by battlefront service, as to how the fortunes of not just Prussia or Bavaria or Germany proper but the entire White world could be reversed amidst catastrophe.

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  Apart from the degenerate Nazi leadership--homosexuals like Rohm, bitter malcontents like Hitler, psychopaths like Goebbels--the fascists ultimately could not hang onto their own followers, and their rule collapsed on itself.  If you look up to them you do so from a trench, possibly a latrine.

This is highly ahistorical.  Its a conspiracy theory of history.  Hitler was simply some 'embittered' man, Goebbels was an evil manipulator, etc.  Gives no thought to the spirit of the age, the tensions that forged the brutal politics of the day, the experiences and monumental ideas endured and internalized by the European peoples that animated them to action.  

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You are right in one respect, conservatism is not consistent with continent-spanning bloodbaths, with the murder of millions of innocents, with psychotic, drug-addicted leaders, or with any of the other brutalities that go hand in glove with fascist rule.

The Soviet Union was annihilating entire classes of humans, pursuant to its guiding idea of world revolutionary socialism.  The OGPU in the 1930s (like the Cheka, absolutely larded with Jews) was the single largest employer in the Soviet Union, and it was simply charged with exterminating people who were considered to be inimical to the Bolshevik program - a program that identified the extermination of the European form of life to be synonymous with 'world liberation'.  The Soviet Union was, for practical purposes, an enormous death camp that was busily arming itself to the teeth in order to export its mass homicide to Europe.  In other words, Jews, and their allies, were exterminating us - and you find it distasteful that the Third Reich struck back with equal force instead of hosting a Buckely/Vidal style debate on the questions of the day.
Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.  ASK ME ABOUT WEARING MY NAZI ARMBAND TO DENNY'S

#6 PLEASUREMAN

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 10:25 PM

Fascism was a failure because it demanded total war, and bled itself white in the process.  Your handwaving of my accurate summation of the leading lights of fascism (all freaks, monsters, and/or idiots) suggests to me you realize on some level what a hopeless task defending them is.

And the rest of what you say is largely to no point--your veneration of the Great White World Empire, without seeming to realize how untenable it was, says it all.  You want to disappear into the suffocating smoke of your pipe as you lean back and imagine this perfection that fascism was supposed to uphold.  Whatever--Rohm was a homosexual, Goebbels was a psychopath, Hitler was a malcontent whose pettiness resulted in gratuitous slaughter, such as when he forbade his hapless armies to retreat from hopeless battle against the Red Army--but no doubt you approve of this sick, depraved "courage".  Speaking of courage, you recall how the great man, the great drug addict and mass murderer, died?  Yes, he ate a bullet.

And at bottom your defense is that Stalin was just as murderous (maybe moreso, as if in their league it matters).  I don't say this to be flippant:  I'm disappointed you can't do better.  I'm puzzled how someone so obviously intelligent and well-read is satisfied with making such a weak case.
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Posted 21 January 2012 - 10:36 PM

Not related directly to our discussion, but nevertheless interesting, is Robert Paxton's Five Stages of Fascism.  It gives some background in fascism's development as a reaction to the excesses of late stage capitalism/democracy.
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#8 Fascist Faggot Florian

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 11:08 PM

View PostPLEASUREMAN, on 21 January 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Fascism was a failure because it demanded total war, and bled itself white in the process.  Your handwaving of my accurate summation of the leading lights of fascism (all freaks, monsters, and/or idiots) suggests to me you realize on some level what a hopeless task defending them is.

No, I don't think Adolf Hitler or for that matter Codreanu or Franco or Pavelic were demonic or monstrous or fools or whatever else Phillip Roth and Howard Zinn may have alleged.  There is something fundamentally superstitious in that view of history.  Reminds me of the converse of wild Mongolians and the Bogd Khan claiming that the 'White Baron' von Sternberg was the physical instantiation of a terror-god.  Here on Earth, we're discussing men who resisted the malevolent and hostile designs of Communism and its enablers.    

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And the rest of what you say is largely to no point--your veneration of the Great White World Empire, without seeming to realize how untenable it was, says it all.  You want to disappear into the suffocating smoke of your pipe as you lean back and imagine this perfection that fascism was supposed to uphold.

Well, we're almost a century in to the colored revolt.  If you like the world that the Jews made, stop complaining about the state of the world.

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Whatever--Rohm was a homosexual, Goebbels was a psychopath, Hitler was a malcontent whose pettiness resulted in gratuitous slaughter, such as when he forbade his hapless armies to retreat from hopeless battle against the Red Army--but no doubt you approve of this sick, depraved "courage".  

'Gratuitous slaughter' is the distilled essence of total war and its a very terrible thing.  I believe ideas have monumental power to shape political horizons, and the world changed when the USSR began implementing what Nolte called ''annihilation therapy'' in the service of its political goals.  The only analogous precedent I can think of was the Noyades - 'death ships' utilized by the Jacobins, to destroy the remaining vestiges of human material 'corrupted' by the ancien regime.  Communism was world-destroying, and in response, the Third Reich began annihilating it at its root, which was the Jewish world of social existence.  It was, and remains, a progenitor of monstrous ideas.  Of course, all the peoples of the world took heed of the 'new way of war'.  Mao's praetorian guard exterminated 60 million humans, by Robert Conquest's estimate.  The Oriental bolsheviks in Kampuchea may have halved the population through political homicide.  America itself developed an atomic capability for the purpose of exterminating entire enemy populations without even deploying infantry armies and tanks.  The Jews themselves, more than dimly aware of their declining fortunes in the Soviet state, perpetuated an organized campaign of homicide and ethnic cleansing in Palestine between 1947-49; now celebrated by them as the sovereign act of foundation of their own racial-socialist state.  And of course, more recently, America killed a million Arabs in a comparatively tiny country to compel compliance with the demands of the Jewish global elite as - in Albright's words, ''we think it was worth it''.  I can't really take seriously the shrill moral outrage of ''conservatives'' - especially when its directed against White men who were resisting Jewish tyranny.  It comes off like Stockholm Syndrome.

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Speaking of courage, you recall how the great man, the great drug addict and mass murderer, died?  Yes, he ate a bullet.

Yeah I know.  That's the patriotard claim.  Muslims are huge pussies because they're willing to die for their beliefs.  Hitler is a coward because he loaded a gun and shot himself.  Only a huge fag would shoot himself to avoid being rat caged by some NKVD torturer, right?

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And at bottom your defense is that Stalin was just as murderous (maybe moreso, as if in their league it matters).  I don't say this to be flippant:  I'm disappointed you can't do better.  I'm puzzled how someone so obviously intelligent and well-read is satisfied with making such a weak case.

Its not a case of 'Stalin was just as bad' - its a case of the Soviet Union changing the way of war and implementing a kind of total political warfare that annihilated entire forms of life and culture.  Germany responded lest it become a Jewish-run open air death camp like what befell Russia.
Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.  ASK ME ABOUT WEARING MY NAZI ARMBAND TO DENNY'S

#9 lurkmore

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 11:19 PM

Sorry J Florian, but they told me Hitler was a BAD MAN in school and I refuse to consider anything else.
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Posted 22 January 2012 - 11:18 AM

View PostJ. Florian, on 21 January 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

No, I don't think Adolf Hitler or for that matter Codreanu or Franco or Pavelic were demonic or monstrous or fools or whatever else Phillip Roth and Howard Zinn may have alleged.  There is something fundamentally superstitious in that view of history.  Reminds me of the converse of wild Mongolians and the Bogd Khan claiming that the 'White Baron' von Sternberg was the physical instantiation of a terror-god.  Here on Earth, we're discussing men who resisted the malevolent and hostile designs of Communism and its enablers.    

View PostJ. Florian, on 21 January 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Well, we're almost a century in to the colored revolt.  If you like the world that the Jews made, stop complaining about the state of the world.
What kind of dumbass retort is this?  Yes, everyone who disagrees with you is a Jew robot.  You are either trolling or you are a poor sad fool, trapped in your own warped ideology.  I must have gotten all I know about Hitler from Philip Roth?  No, actually it was a biography by John Toland, among other sources, and all real biographies about Hitler (as opposed to the White Nationalist hagiographies you apparently read) note his mental instability, drug use, incredibly stupid military decisions, and other defects of character.  History books--by non-Jews!--record that Ernst Rohm was a homosexual who had sex with boys (in addition to being a brutal thug).  Goebbels (a weakling in real life) delighted in the prospect of total war and, in a grisly act of self-immolation, killed all six of his young children rather than have them live beyond the fall of his pathological Reich.  Not the opinion of Jews, but the opinion of anyone of better than moron intelligence who looks at the historical record in toto.

Care to rebut any of these claims?  I thought not.

View PostJ. Florian, on 21 January 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

I can't really take seriously the shrill moral outrage of ''conservatives'' - especially when its directed against White men who were resisting Jewish tyranny.  It comes off like Stockholm Syndrome.
I excerpted this from your windy digression because it's the only part that is to the point.  Of course it is nonsensical as well.  The notion that any evil can be excused as long as "it's not good for the Jews" is pretty close to psychopathic thought.  The "Jewish tyranny" that ruled Germany yet installed Hitler as chancellor--how does that work again?  Even those of us who criticize Jewish influence should have the humanity to realize that Jews themselves are not born guilty, and therefore, all bad jokes aside, they are not deserving of extermination.  But I've observed that humanity is very easily suppressed by ideologues who see only abstractions, and this is the path to sociopathic politics like that of Nazism, Communism, Fascism, or mass depravity under any other banner.  Whom does it attract?  Mainly losers, freaks, the inadequate, and psychopaths.  Enjoy the company of your peers!

View PostJ. Florian, on 21 January 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

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Speaking of courage, you recall how the great man, the great drug addict and mass murderer, died?  Yes, he ate a bullet.

Yeah I know.  That's the patriotard claim.  Muslims are huge pussies because they're willing to die for their beliefs.  Hitler is a coward because he loaded a gun and shot himself.  Only a huge fag would shoot himself to avoid being rat caged by some NKVD torturer, right?
You're eager to argue with the dumbest representation of your opponents--and I can see why.  You yourself are absolutely hopeless at ginning up a decent counter-argument, all you can do is sputter about Jews like a flustered kook, albeit a kook who has been trained to pad out his thoughts with pseudo-intellectual rationalizations and name-dropping.

Hitler took the easy way out, because he knew that the judgement of the war's victors would fall upon him, he would be tried before humanity, and executed for his crimes--crimes, I should add, that victimized Germany most of all.  He raped that country--where my ancestors lived--in order to save it from largely imaginary threats.  I know this will lead into your preposterous claim that, had Hitler not started war in Europe, Stalin would have swept in and destroyed Germany.  There isn't much evidence for that, and plenty to the contrary.  But in the end it is a pointless discussion that you will turn to only because you have nothing else to say about Hitler's handling of the war, which was utterly inept--and if the aim was to prevent the Red Army from marching through Europe, a complete and total failure.

View PostJ. Florian, on 21 January 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Its not a case of 'Stalin was just as bad' - its a case of the Soviet Union changing the way of war and implementing a kind of total political warfare that annihilated entire forms of life and culture.  Germany responded lest it become a Jewish-run open air death camp like what befell Russia.
And how did that work out for Germany?

I'll tell you how:  they now bear the guilt of mass murder, they suffer humiliation by Jews for these great crimes, and Germany itself is bleeding life at an alarming rate.  Your idolization of Hitler is, in light of this, a sad joke.
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#11 Fascist Faggot Florian

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 12:41 PM

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What kind of dumbass retort is this?  Yes, everyone who disagrees with you is a Jew robot.  You are either trolling or you are a poor sad fool, trapped in your own warped ideology.  I must have gotten all I know about Hitler from Philip Roth?  No, actually it was a biography by John Toland, among other sources, and all real biographies about Hitler (as opposed to the White Nationalist hagiographies you apparently read) note his mental instability, drug use, incredibly stupid military decisions, and other defects of character.


I'm familiar with Toland's book.  I've pieced my opinion of Hitler's personal character (though I'm curious as to why a grown man would fixate on things like rumors of 'drug use' in a discussion of history and historical processes.  Seems rather hysterical and effeminate.  Would be rather like somebody attacking Kennedy - which there is ample ground to do so - not on his executive shortcomings but on grounds of the fact that he apparently was dependent upon prescription drugs) from Mein Kampf, The Second Book, Inside the Third Reich by Speer, Fest's seminal books on the topic, Irving's Hitler's War, Nolte's Thee Faces of Fascism and Fascism in its Epoch, and a number of other sources.  Speer's book is most persuasive because it constitutes direct evidence; and Speer was serving a prison sentence when it was written so he presumably had little incentive to confabulate.  Irving had unprecedented access to persons who had been present during seminal events of the war and in proximate relationships to Hitler, the OKW, and the NSDAP control group so his accounts, really an aggregate of direct testimony, is highly persuasive as well.  With respect to Hitler's own subjective impressions and view of history and political life, his own books are very clear on these subjects.  I sincerely doubt you've read either one - people who have and wish to levy a punitive critique of Hitler usually rely on Hitler's statements from his own work product.  They don't often shriek with moral outrage about ''drugs''.

With respect to Hitler's mental instability, I haven't seen any evidence that Hitler was psychologically afflicted; other than anecdotal claims that Hitler was quick to anger and severely depressed in the 11th hour of a total war.  I would posit that this is normal for a chief executive under extreme duress.  Speer claimed, not improperly, that he was Hitler's closest personal friend - the only friend Hitler would allow himself really.  When he described Hitler's laments during the terminal siege of Berlin, there is a tragic component clearly present.  Hitler - the artist, he was not a crude politician, was still captivated by the National Socialist vision of a better world; even as Berlin fell to siege.  

Your view of these things is histrionic and partisan - in a way really that is only really common to liberal partisans, Jews, ill-informed neocons, and the like.  It can't really be taken seriously.



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History books--by non-Jews!--record that Ernst Rohm was a homosexual who had sex with boys (in addition to being a brutal thug).


Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.  He acted with a contempt for death, utter ruthlessness, and a cultivated nihilism that prompted even his harshest detractors to stand in awe of his apparent fearlessness.  Rohm was, in the historical memory, an archetype of the pragmatic Bavarian, in all honesty - he had contempt for Himmler, Darre, Rosenberg, and he had no interest in the 'Nordic ideal' or the dreamy racialism of some of the Baltic German elements within the NSDAP - nor did he have a reflexive passion for the majesty of aristocracy as the Prussian elements did.  He's something of an odd man to single out as the ''worst Nazi''.  What Rohm demonstrated was a remarkable acumen for organization, which is unsurprising - he had a reputation as a brilliant staff officer - and an ability to essentially shape the endemic violence of the demobilized frontfighters towards constructive ends, and in doing so simultaneously depriving the enemy of a manpower base.  Quite incredible, really.  With respect to his vices and moral failings, Hitler himself responded to Goring's objections on the matter by pointing out that the SA was a tough fighting force of political soldiers, it was not a seminary.  Political warfare needs soldiers, not moral role models.  Of course, when the Strasser wing of the NSDAP was eliminated, Rohm was executed as well - so Hitler, in your view, apparently did 'the right thing'.  I'm somewhat at a loss as to why you would focus on this peculiar point, however interesting it may be.

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Goebbels (a weakling in real life) delighted in the prospect of total war and, in a grisly act of self-immolation, killed all six of his young children rather than have them live beyond the fall of his pathological Reich.  Not the opinion of Jews, but the opinion of anyone of better than moron intelligence who looks at the historical record in toto.

This is absurd.  Pure, shrill hyperbole.  Goebbels hardly ''delighted in the prospect of total war''.  Where do you get these ideas?  Old Boyd Rice albums?  The Third Reich didn't even mobilize to a total war footing until 1944 - this was the impetus for Goebbels ''total war'' speech.  Unlike the USSR, mobilization wasn't simply implemented by diktat.  The Third Reich was a house divided - a tense coalition of Prussians, Bavarians, Baltic Germans, Catholics, Lutherans, farmers, workers, businessmen and others who were united in their belief in the efficacy of executive decisionism and patriotism.  It was not a crude despotism and it found itself at a disadvantage (militarily) vis a vis the Soviet Union on grounds of this.  Goebbels apparent enthusiasm for 'total war' was an effort to instill confidence in the German people that they could muster the fortitude required to wage war on the necessary terms, and sacrifice personally in order that victory might be realized.

I also think the claim that Goebbels was a 'weakling' is facile.  One way he became endeared to the German people is that he'd personally appeal for calm during the allied bombing raids in Berlin, and he'd assist the victims directly.  He was a man of the people who wasn't averse to physical risk.  Goebbels killed his children so that they wouldn't be raped and murdered by the Red Army or exiled to a gulag or employed as props in a political war against the free world by Stalin.  What exactly do you think happened to National Socialists and their families who were captured by the Soviet Union?  


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The "Jewish tyranny" that ruled Germany yet installed Hitler as chancellor--how does that work again?


As Mladikov pointed out, you don't really understand history and its development.  Political occurrences don't exist in isolation, it must suffice to state.  This clumsy misunderstanding on your part doesn't warrant anymore attention.

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Even those of us who criticize Jewish influence should have the humanity to realize that Jews themselves are not born guilty, and therefore, all bad jokes aside, they are not deserving of extermination.  But I've observed that humanity is very easily suppressed by ideologues who see only abstractions, and this is the path to sociopathic politics like that of Nazism, Communism, Fascism, or mass depravity under any other banner.  Whom does it attract?  Mainly losers, freaks, the inadequate, and psychopaths.  Enjoy the company of your peers!

Unfortunately, PLEASUREMAN was not alive in 1942 to shreik, and scream, and wag his finger at people for behaving in naughty ways.  If he were, the process of history might have been halted.


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Hitler took the easy way out, because he knew that the judgement of the war's victors would fall upon him, he would be tried before humanity, and executed for his crimes--crimes, I should add, that victimized Germany most of all.

This really speaks for itself.  You believe in some community of humanity that is vested with 'human rights' and has the sovereign authority to declare that its enemies have committed ''crimes''.  That's distilled Wilsonianism in a nutshell.  You're a very confused fellow.  A liberal who likes to yammer about 'the damn naggers' and 'the damn kikes' on the internet, when he's not making a case for the community of humanity and human rights.  I'd cite Schmitt's ''Nomos of the Earth'' here and maybe Taft for good measure, as he was a Yankee type Republican he might be more acceptable to MPC as an authoritative source, but I'm frankly stupefied that you'd invoke 'human rights' in a discussion of history.  A serious person simply wouldn't do that.
Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.  ASK ME ABOUT WEARING MY NAZI ARMBAND TO DENNY'S

#12 PLEASUREMAN

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 12:46 PM

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Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.
:lol:

go back to salo
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#13 Fascist Faggot Florian

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 12:48 PM

View PostPLEASUREMAN, on 22 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Quote

Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.
:lol:

go back to salo

Tell us more about how the damn naggers and kikes and feminists are undermining your human rights
Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.  ASK ME ABOUT WEARING MY NAZI ARMBAND TO DENNY'S

#14 PLEASUREMAN

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 01:03 PM

View PostJ. Florian, on 22 January 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

View PostPLEASUREMAN, on 22 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Quote

Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.
:lol:

go back to salo

Tell us more about how the damn naggers and kikes and feminists are undermining your human rights
You are a mentally ill victim and rather than get irritated with you I feel pity.  By the way, although you put "human rights" in sneer quotes (which says enough about how truncated your emotional growth is), I didn't type it.  Just a minor equivocation in a disorganized reply filled with them--a very familiar way of making everything into something you can ignore rather than cope with.

I talked about the humanity (not human rights) of Jews who had done nothing and supported no cause against Hitler or Germany, most of them not even living in Germany, but these words fall on deaf ears in your case because, for all your talk of courage and toughness, you are a psychologically damaged person who needs clinical help, not a courageous thinker defying the conventions of weaklings.  Instead of flinging poop like an infant, you've learned to scrawl it out in audacious sentences for people to read and express shock at.  Congratulations.  Now go back to Salo, this garbage is as big a waste of time as someone posting an endless series of shock photos or the collected works of the Marquis de Sade.
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#15 Fascist Faggot Florian

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 01:13 PM

I'll make a post about jurisprudence, the laws of nations, the Westphalian peace, and Nuremburg later today.  Its a question of no small importance to people who take an interest in the state of political culture.  I'd behoove you in advance not to attempt to participate, but its your forum so I can't stop you.  Frankly I'm embarressed on your behalf.  It reminds me of gradeschool when, in their infinite wisdom, administrators would place learning disabled tykes in the same classrooms as normals - and we'd be saddled with the burden of having to witness some unfortunately afflicted sprat try to sound out sentences aloud phonetically.
Rohm in many ways exemplified the release of intense energies, shorn of any kind of petit-bourgeoise conceits, within the men of Germany's lost generation.  ASK ME ABOUT WEARING MY NAZI ARMBAND TO DENNY'S

#16 PLEASUREMAN

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 01:25 PM

View PostJ. Florian, on 22 January 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

I'll make a post about jurisprudence, the laws of nations, the Westphalian peace, and Nuremburg later today.  Its a question of no small importance to people who take an interest in the state of political culture.  I'd behoove you in advance not to attempt to participate, but its your forum so I can't stop you.  Frankly I'm embarressed on your behalf.  It reminds me of gradeschool when, in their infinite wisdom, administrators would place learning disabled tykes in the same classrooms as normals - and we'd be saddled with the burden of having to witness some unfortunately afflicted sprat try to sound out sentences aloud phonetically.
garbled gibberish, goodbye
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#17 Rickey Henderson

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:40 PM

f**k u nancyboy

#18 phalluster

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:41 PM

View PostRickey Henderson, on 22 January 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

f**k u nancyboy

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#19 Sassy Fascist Alpha Guy

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 05:15 PM

my hugbox career

#20 Peer Reviewed Study

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 06:02 PM

nuremberg all over again..
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